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View Full Version : Car & Driver Test of 911 vs Corvette and GTR



Brownie
12-30-2011, 02:58 PM
First of all, i easily predicted the porshe won simply because it was NEW. They gave the 911 top marks for styling... what styling??? It looks the same as it has for the last 25 years! If Chevy tried that, they'd call is a C5 and 7/8's ( oh wait a minute, they did!). The Z06 tested was the cheapest and tracked the fastest... but that didn't mean anything...and the corvette didn't score for back seats... since when does a road test for sports cars give a shit about that ? And if you want a nice ride, get a base model!
Then the ZR1 blows everything away on the lighting lap but the 911 is nowhere to be seen.
I'm sure the porshe is improved and great to drive but sheesh, the way they fawn all over it, it's embarassing.
Just wait until the C7 comes out and if its not a total exterior redesign, they will be critical of that!

steveb01z06
12-31-2011, 12:21 PM
I bought a used Honda as a daily driver. Thinking that I needed a source of information to maintain the car, I bought one of those magazines dedicated to ricers. I couldn't believe the contemptuous attitude toward ANYTHING American. I like a lot of cars, but when a Z06 will lap Laguna Seca 2 seconds faster than an F430, why can't they acknowledge that as an amazing accomplishment?

LLC5
12-31-2011, 01:52 PM
I think the rating might have to do with the cost of the vehicle. Did you see the price of that Z06 in the atricle - $102,155. GM has priced the Vette into some very formidale comparison tests. The price of Corvette is soaring (at least the options are, which are mandatory in a lot of cases, even color), I hope they get some better press in the future or they are going to be in real trouble. The Corvette is still a lot of bang for the buck if bought properly, but when a magazine is handed a $102,000 vehicle the expectations past "just performance" are much greater.

Apparently the only way that you can even buy a black color Corvette in 2012 is to pony up a minimum of $6000.00 for the 3LT interior package and $5000.00 for the Centennial Edition together, which makes the color black in 2012 at least a $11,000 hit. GM is smelling pure profit on any black colored Corvette in 2012. :)

steveb01z06
12-31-2011, 02:38 PM
Yes, I agree, but when you are testing cars on the track, the implication is that speed is an important factor. I guarantee that if the Ferrari or the Porsche had been the fastest car, we would have heard a lot about it. 102,000 smackers is a lot for a Corvette, but you can barely find a 911 for that, let alone a Ferrari.

I'm just saying that they could give credit where credit is due, and with a sport car, lap times should be way up there. The big gripe against the Vette in this case was non-supportive seats, so if they get better seats, the lap-time gap would have been even greater and they'd have to find something else to bitch about.

I think part of it was that the Vette didn't just beat them, it humiliated them.

Abernathy
12-31-2011, 07:38 PM
The seats should have been replaced the first time a magazine reporting whined about them...

What could have possessed chevy to not actually put a half way supportive seat in the corvette...at the least as an option..

ridiculous that we have to hear about this year after year..

Its almost as if chevy engineers laugh at the reviews instead of reacting to them...

At 50 grand...another grand to fix the seat issue should have been implemented not for the C7...but rather the C6 and even the C5...

Brownie
12-31-2011, 08:02 PM
The seats should have been replaced the first time a magazine reporting whined about them...

What could have possessed chevy to not actually put a half way supportive seat in the corvette...at the least as an option..

ridiculous that we have to hear about this year after year..

Its almost as if chevy engineers laugh at the reviews instead of reacting to them...

At 50 grand...another grand to fix the seat issue should have been implemented not for the C7...but rather the C6 and even the C5...

What is chevy waiting for? a new seat that really had the bolstering to hold a driver in place would have and should have been corrected after 1997 for gods sake.

JBsC6
12-31-2011, 08:10 PM
full article..worth a read ..

who cares what the magazine says is the winner.

We all know its the corvette..

Enjy the read..

Car and Driver Z06 vs GTR vs 911

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...BNH1uoPNN1zI1Q

froggy47
01-01-2012, 12:25 PM
The seats should have been replaced the first time a magazine reporting whined about them...

What could have possessed chevy to not actually put a half way supportive seat in the corvette...at the least as an option..

ridiculous that we have to hear about this year after year..

Its almost as if chevy engineers laugh at the reviews instead of reacting to them...

At 50 grand...another grand to fix the seat issue should have been implemented not for the C7...but rather the C6 and even the C5...

I agree, the Sport Seats in my 96 LT4 were better than the c5/c6 seats (but they were HEAVY). I have to think there is some kind of "payola" going on that results in those crap c5/c6 seats still being bolted into the car.

Shameful in a car as good as the Vette.

steveb01z06
01-01-2012, 12:40 PM
OK, I'll give you an example: a magazine (US based) will test several sports cars including the Vette and a Lotus Elise. They pan the Corvette for its interior, virtually ignoring whatever other qualities the car has. They praise the Lotus like it is the next coming.

Have you driven an Elise? It doesn't HAVE an interior in a conventional sense. NO carpets. Every surface is either hard plastic or aluminum plate. It also requires a contortionist to get in and out of. I think the seats probably are as flimsy as the Vette's, but the interior is so tight, there's no place for you to slide to. The Lotus has a kit car feel to it.

I actually wish GM would offer an interior more like the Lotus, but that's just me. But my point is, why is the interior so important on the Vette but completely unimportant on another car?

LLC5
01-01-2012, 01:49 PM
I agree, the Sport Seats in my 96 LT4 were better than the c5/c6 seats (but they were HEAVY). I have to think there is some kind of "payola" going on that results in those crap c5/c6 seats still being bolted into the car.

Shameful in a car as good as the Vette.




Yeah, that is a long time to go with flimsy seats on a performance vehicle (1997-2012 at least, and probably a year or two longer now), especially when you consider all the ridiculously expensive option packages that are available on the same vehicle, and the constant panning they get in the media. Why aren't decent seats in one of the packages? Go figure. :D

froggy47
01-01-2012, 07:03 PM
OK, I'll give you an example: a magazine (US based) will test several sports cars including the Vette and a Lotus Elise. They pan the Corvette for its interior, virtually ignoring whatever other qualities the car has. They praise the Lotus like it is the next coming.

Have you driven an Elise? It doesn't HAVE an interior in a conventional sense. NO carpets. Every surface is either hard plastic or aluminum plate. It also requires a contortionist to get in and out of. I think the seats probably are as flimsy as the Vette's, but the interior is so tight, there's no place for you to slide to. The Lotus has a kit car feel to it.

I actually wish GM would offer an interior more like the Lotus, but that's just me. But my point is, why is the interior so important on the Vette but completely unimportant on another car?

I couldn't agree more & that's quite a good example. I have wedged myself into a Lotus & driven it hard & it has a crap can interior. All kinds of bit's were loose & rattling & cheap. Made my car seem like a Jag interior by comparison. I have totally given up on C&D head to head comparisons & who they pick as a winner long ago. The data still has interesting info, but forget about who "they" calculate as the winner. The weightings to the catagories are riduculous & they even penalized the Vette some points (got zero points) for NO REAR SEAT! Seriously.

They are in the magazine selling business, certainly not in the car evaluation business.

:)

Brownie
01-02-2012, 08:44 AM
the new 911 S is a nice vehicle.....but how much slower around the track was it?

steveb01z06
01-02-2012, 05:19 PM
The GT3, which is the Uber Porsche track car and was on the same tires as the Centennial Z06, was more than 2 seconds slower. And I'm not knocking the Porsche. I'd love to wake up and find one in my garage.

Donna_and_John
01-03-2012, 12:32 PM
C&D has show in the past that they are severly biased against ANY american brand. I've seen articles in the past where it seems like they have to "spin" some "standard" in their test to justify why they picked the top pick over an American car. It is why I don't even bother looking at C&D anymore, even when I'm int eh waitng room at the doc's office.

That being said, is there room for improvement in the Vette? Yes, there always is. The same can likely be said for all cars out there. There are some things I'd like to see GM address. For example, why doesn't GM offer a premium "racing seat" option for the Vette? I also don't like the idea of having to get a certain option package just to get a black Vette, like what is reported above. Certain basic colors should be offered each year of the Vette, and black is one of them. Further, each color offered should be available across ALL models of Vettes (with the exception of a special edition color/paint scheme). That way, folks like us could have gotten a Dark Bowling Green Metallic ZO6 instead of having to "settle" for a Coupe.

JBsC6
01-03-2012, 03:08 PM
dark Bowling Green Metallic is a beautiful color.

I'd say without a shadow of a doubt you made the right choice.

How many miles on that awesome vette???

JB

Donna_and_John
01-03-2012, 04:27 PM
How many miles on that awesome vette???

Thanks! We're at just over 84k right now. Still runs great, but I have to do some relatively minor work on it. The oil pressure sender decided to crap out, so off comes the intake manifold. While I'm there under the hood, I'm replacing the intake gaskets, valve cover gaskets, serpentine belt, and idler pulley. Well, I may have my buddy Shawn help me out with some of that...

JBsC6
01-03-2012, 09:32 PM
John,

If I remember correctly...that beautiful green Corvette you own also has a heads and cam in it..

Do you have to swap out the valve springs every 20k miles as well?

I'm at 45 thousand miles on this C6 and its been awesome.

I can thank C4C5 specialist for his expertise on that as he services my vehicle.

JB

Donna_and_John
01-04-2012, 11:00 AM
John,

If I remember correctly...that beautiful green Corvette you own also has a heads and cam in it..

Do you have to swap out the valve springs every 20k miles as well?
Yes, it does. The cam we have is not one of the "wild" ones available, but it does offer significant power gains while keeping near stock driveability. I don't have to frequently change the valve springs. Having to changes valve springs every year or every 20k miles is a general misconseption about heads & cam packages. Yes, there are packages out there using a single spring that do require somewhat frequent replacement. Those packages (I am generalizing somewhat here) tend to be the more exotic spring material - high lift cam package. They are also tend to be the single valve spring arrangement. Using a dual spring and a less "wild" (lower lift) cam package gives you much better longevity.

Our package was installed over ten years ago with an early version of dual springs. One outer spring broke nearly seven years ago. All the others tested out fine, but I went ahead and replaced them all with a newer version dual spring. I've had no issues at all since then.